Return to: www.fbcgalt.org/epicenter.htm
Return to: www.fbcgalt.org/epicenter.htm
In Defense of
Rick Warren
Below you will read interactions between John and writers from the Epicenter: pastorob at www.fbcgalt.org/rob’sblog.htm
dotcom.tom at www.fbcgalt.org/tom’sblog.htm
and krazyal at www.fbcgalt.org/krazyal.htm
Should you want
to add any of your thoughts, please email me: urban editor.
To: pastorob and fbcgalt
Sent:
Subject: www.thebereancall.org
Rob:
This web site was just brought to my attention tonight. Whenever
you get a chance I would welcome your critique of Dave Hunt's Critique" of
Rick Warren's book: The Purpose Driven Life.
I believe I have seen Dave Hunt's books in print. I listened to
some of their online radio program:
How Biblical is the Purpose-driven Life?
They were concerned that Rick used the Bible paraphrases The Message and The Living Bible as much as he did. They feel paraphrasing does not do God's Word justice and many times change it's meaning.
For me, I enjoyed
reading The Purpose Driven Life (when it first came out). I basically only
hold to his 5 points of Purpose as a guide to remember. Granted it is a simple
formula (as there are many other points of purpose) but not a bad place to
start.
I can also see their concern (especially for new
believers) if one does not know the Bible well.
Thanking you in advance,
John Rickard
CLICK HERE to email John
_____________________________________________
Dear John:
I'll take a look when I have the time. However, I already have a presupposition
about those who choose to 'write against' a man who is obviously making a major
impact on local churches around the world: Rick Warren.
In church history, a man once went up to D.L. Moody and said
(something like this):
"Mr. Moody, I don't approve of your method of
evangelism."
Moody replied (something like this): "Sir, what is YOUR
method of evangelism?"
The distinguished gentleman answered, "Why, I have no
'method' of evangelism!"
Moody's succinct and cut-to-the-chase: "Sir, I prefer
'my method' over yours..."
Iron sharpens iron, so I guess that any website that calls
itself "The Berean
Call" has a high calling! (Search the scriptures and see
for yourself if Paul's making this all up...or is 'this Jesus' (the Risen
Christ of Paul's Damascus Road experience---the one that other respected Jewish
leaders crucified)...is 'this Jesus' the Messiah (the Suffering Servant).
Many of the Jews in
I'm busy with a method that 'self-proclaimed' bereans
might not appreciate either namely:
"The Complete Idiot's Guide to Fundamentalist Diatribes
about the Man-Made Methodologies of Blackaby, Warren, Falwell, Swaggart, Sunday,
Finney, Moody, Wesley, Luther, McCartney (the Coach or the Beatle),
Patterson, Peterson, Hornecker, Wagner, Shouse, Lane, Rickard (any of them), Fugate, Jebby, Hitler, Manson (Marilyn or Charlie), Seinfeld,
Roosevelt (Franklin or Teddy), Stonehill,
Kennedy (any of them), Lennon, Lenin, Bowie, Zimmerman, Dylan, Bush (any of
them), and Peter, Paul, and (...Mary...or....Timothy).
I'm busy working on local church stuff, regional church stuff,
world-wide church stuff
Rick Warren, Eugene Peterson, Henry Blackaby......are
all men with a 'method' who each claim to be "a man
with a Relationship."
G2G......jos
(Jesus over shoulder)
Love, (paraphrased....hmm...I really,really,really LIKE you...)
Rob
p.s. please don't send our web address to
the Bereans....not yet anyway....I've got 'stuff' to do!
________________________________________________________________
Sent:
Subject: Re:
No Hurry
OK...so I didn't make it to the office after all. Your letter (and
my response) made me decide to stay home and check the site you sent:
Oh, I discovered that this is Dave Hunt. I used to watch him in
the 80's on the John Ankerburg show. He was great (I
think) at talking about Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Masonry, etc.
So, actually, I wouldn't have called Dave Hunt a FUNDAMENTALIST
close-minded guy.
So, I found this site to be a great use of media....in fact, our
own website won't play very quickly on my softcom
dialup. This radio show I'm currently listening to is
streaming along nice.
Sure, Dave is 'critiquing' Rick Warren right now (but I'm enjoying
it), while I'm cleaning the kitchen--instead of writing my Blog.
Thanks, John. Iron sharpens iron.
Rob
________________________________________________________
Sent:
Subject:
Re: No Hurry
10 minutes into the radio program, I'm enjoying this. I'm glad
that they speak as they do...that churches have a right to challenge this
book.
Good stuff. I wouldn't wanna be
Rick Warren listening right now....because he'd probably feel that they're
making a good point....and unfortunately, its a little
late.
As good as Rick's book is....it is, after all, just a book
(there's thousands and thousands of books).
rob
i recommend the radio show if you have
some time today. http://www.thebereancall.org/
________________________________________________________________
Sent:
Subject: No
Hurry
Rob
I have a little to say about using different translations. When I was Pastor at
Clements I had the sweetest lady with a 6th grade education. She
was the dispatcher at the Fire Dept. She only got to church two weeks out of
the month as she was on duty. I went by one day to check up on her and
found her struggling with trying to read the King James translation. We were in
a process of reading the Bible through in one year. I had just purchased
a copy of the Good News Bible now called something else but having a senior
moment. I brought that in to her and she could read it and understand
it. I gave her my copy and when she became very ill, several years later,
she wanted me to help plan her funeral. She made sure that I knew that she had
read her bible through several times. You could sure tell it as the cover
was falling off. I used that translation at her funeral with this passage.
I would like to
draw your attention to the passage that is found in the Book Of
Lamentations, in the third chapter, that I feel shows our sorrow this
day. Jeremiah the prophet is sitting on the broken down walls of
Al Warren
_______________________________________________________________
Sent:
Subject: Re:
No Hurry - Another View Point
Rob (Al and Jim):
When you're done reading Dave
Hunt's critical analysis, here is a short list of some interesting
web articles for your reading pleasure, sure to stimulate and
arouse. These articles should prove useful, lest we become too
complacent in our beliefs (and associations).
We could use our time making a positive impact on
our world and finding the best in people like Eugene Peterson, Rick Warren,
Billy Graham, Rob Patterson, Richard Wesley, etc., but that could be
tiring and people might see us as "defensive" - certainly not
a desirable trait in professional critics.
2 Corinthians 4: 3-7 reminds us that we (
The following web articles are written in
the Paul Bunyan style (picture the BIG logger with the ox and the axe, not
John Bunyan, the 17th century religious writer). John
Bunyan used allegory to present "the message" to the world, and we
all know how dangerous allegory is!! I would never use that
religious heretic to make a point.
No, these gifted web-writers have their axes to
grind not against trees, but against Southern Baptists, Baptists in
general, and Bible paraphrases. Please remember that this is the short
list. I can provide a much more extensive list if you require.
Why the Southern Baptist Convention is
Wrong
http://www.mainstreambaptists.org/mob/sessions2.htm
Financial Problems at the Southern Baptist
Convention
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/029512.htm
Baptists - What's wrong with their
theology? - Part 2 (Sorry, they didn't have a
link to part 1)
http://members.tripod.com/~jefferson100/religion/religion-11.html
Paraphrases of the Bible: Multiplied
Confusion
http://www.swrc.com/update/2004/april/apr19.htm
For what it's worth, Dave Hunt's best selling
book, "The Seduction of Christianity" is currently ranked #105,034 at
Amazon.com. "The Purpose Driven Life" is currently ranked #39
(after almost a year at #1). I guess my mentioning this detail
is just the businessman in me coming out. I'm sure Dave Hunt has
something to say about this inherent fault of mine in his book, "Why I
Never Buy Stuff from Christian Businessmen," currently
ranked #896,004,326 at Amazon.
This quote may offer some balance
...
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, complain and write books about those that do." --Dot.Com.Tom (circa 2005)
Love,
Dot.Com.Tom
_________________________________________________________________________________
Sent:
Subject:
finished the program
Dear John (and other Bible Buddies):
I just finished listening to the whole radio show "T.A. McMahon and Dave Hunt: How Biblical is the
Purpose Driven Life?" .....though I felt that these
two made some good points....and seemed to think that they were truly
guarding us from heresy, I think that their problem is more with "Calvinism" (and the
ways Peterson’s reflection of calvinism has impinged
upon Warren’s theology through use of the Message).
Eugene Peterson was a Presbyterian pastor of 30 some
years before writing the Message.
Whenever I have used one of his 'thoughts' I have usually made reference
to the theological stream in which he has served. I'm a Baptist...not a
Presbyterian....I know that there's some differences in what we would teach.
I don't prefer his paraphrase for 'every' passage; I remember
really liking the one from John though: "Jesus moved into our neighborhood." or my
paraphrase of my
misrecollection of his paraphrase:
"God became flesh and
chose to sit in the smoking section with me and my friends."
I don't particularly like Rick Warren's choices of
translations/paraphrases given in the 'canned' sermons he sells online. When I
have preached through any of his outlines, I have usually replaced most of the
passages he chose because I think I can better support the point (a form of iesegesis, I know) with a different portion of Scripture.
I also eliminate about two/thirds of the verses which have come up
in his research (using the computer's search feature covering all those
translations); When Rick Warren researches for a "FELT
NEED" sermon, he types in a word like Insecurity
or Depression
then all the occurrences of that word pop up from all those
translations; he cuts and pastes and voila....a sermon outline.
Not always my choice....so I have usually used my NIV; keeping the
well Alliterated Sermon Points, Acronyms, Fill-in-the Blank, etc. I NEVER
have preached one of his sermon outlines without making it my own...first.
Dr. Craig Skinner once quoted another guy (somebody) about sermon
preparation: "I've milked a dozen cows....but I churned my own
butter."
That's how I work with any materials borrowed from Peterson,
I didn't like the end tone of the radio program because one of
the men said he read the Purpose
Driven Life carefully and could not find the Gospel anywhere in
it...
Come on, guys.....what about page 34
John 14:6; what about page 58? "First,
believe...Second receive..." Sounds like a traditional VBS altar call to me....the sinner's prayer,
etc. I know some people think you can't be saved by praying the sinner's
prayer...but it worked for me. I think...I mean I hope I'm saved!
Listen for yourself:
http://www.thebereancall.org
Rob
p.s. John, feel free to pass
my Critique of their critique on to them now as well as my earlier letter about
neo-bereans. Hey can I use your letters for a website
feature since we will continue to endorse the Purpose Driven Life, Blackaby, and others?
_____________________________________________________________________
Rob:
You
may us me, abuse me as you see fit. I trust you.
My two
cents worth:
I
gained a lot from Blackaby, Warren, you and many
others. I also, with the help of the Holy Spirit, make my own butter.
My
pastor, Pete, thinks he is on the same page.
He said, "Eat
the meat and spit out the bones."
John
Return to: www.fbcgalt.org/epicenter.htm
writers from the Epicenter: pastorob at www.fbcgalt.org/rob’sblog.htm
dotcom.tom at www.fbcgalt.org/tom’sblog.htm
and krazyal at www.fbcgalt.org/krazyal.htm